Weekend Open Thread
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Good Morning. I hope that you are enjoying this weekend, fully vaccinated
and boosted, with family and friends. That new booster shot has been
approved and...
1 day ago
Sunday, November 1, 2009
Victims Are Rewarded Life Sentences
A child was taken advantage of, fought back, and was given a life sentence for it. What kind of society are we living in when a grown man rapes a 13 year old child and then puts her out on the street to work as a prostitute?
Children are supposed to be protected because they are some of our most vulnerable citizens. Are we letting our children down and failing them? We have child predators that steal their innocence and cause them to have mental scars for the rest of their lives. At the age of 16, Sara Kruzan killed her 31 year old pimp who raped her when she was 13 years old. When does the healing begin if she is given a life sentence for it?
I am speechless and heartbroken over reading this story. This is one time I really don't know what to say. So, I'll just end this post.
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46 comments:
I am just as speechless as you are honey. That sounds wayyy off!
Is it not all part of the rigged game?
Mr. Cop and Mr. Prosecutor are "just doing their jobs", "Just the facts", and that's that.
Besides, making her completely responsible lets a whole lot of other people and institutions off the hook, so she HAS to be maxxed.
"Greater good", you know. "Individual responsibility", "accountability", that sort of thing that makes the public nod in grave sobriety that "the system works".
We haven't had anything quite that bad around here, but when some atrocity comes to light, it is always the person who took action on their own behalf's fault. They Should Have Known...that there was all this help at their fingertips, and should have used it.
Never mind that there are papers to be filled out, people to see (who aren't available because they're in a meeting...always), and these things take time.
Besides, say the appropriate agencied that are meant to help people like that girl, wadda ya want from us??!! We have these case loads, sometimes people fall through the cracks... and if she'd REEEEally wanted help... (shrug)...
"...justice for all..." huh?
When I was a teenager my sister had a friend who was "in custody" for three years, under lock and key in juvenile detention.
Her "crime" was that both of her parents were klled in an accident and the cops came and got her, put her in custody until care could be decided on from a relative or something, and there she stayed. Lost paperwork, "administrative delays", simple neglect...
But, it was "proceedure" and thus not a problem...for anyone but her.
I often wonder what became of her.
But that always comes to the powerless, doesn't it?
Della:
Yeah, I know the feeling.
Sarge:
The system is rigged. You have the game down pat. I had a similar experience with a child that lived across the street from me. Only her parents were not deceased but they were separated. Her mother was beating her daily with a wood closet bar rack. I don't have to tell you how thick those bars are. The girl was only 11 years old. Anyway, she used to always like to come and sit up under my baby girl, who would pamper her so to speak. She felt sorry for the child because, well, to put it bluntly she was being neglected. My daughter was very petite, wore a size 3, and she'd give her a bunch of clothes that were to small for her, that she had outgrown. She would comb the girls hair to make her feel good about herself.
I happen to notice a sad look in the girl's eyes, her extreme shyness, but what really caught my eye was the marks on her legs and back. So, I asked my daughter to see if she knew and that is how I found out about her mother beating her. I didn't know yet what she was beating her with and found that out later.
One day, early in the morning, during the summer, the little girl ran over to our house and she was crying and shaking. I had just got up and was getting ready to fix breakfast. That's when I found out what she was beating her with.
The woman came and knocked on my door to get the little girl and I refused to give the child to her. She and I exchanged some words and I basically told her that to get the child she would have whoop me that day. The woman saw the look in my eyes and could tell that I meant every word I was saying. She threaten to call the police on me and I told her, "Go right ahead and when the police get here, you can explain to them where this child got all these bruises from."
Well, she left and went back home. The child stayed with me for about week, until her father came and got her. He had new girlfriend that he was living with and didn't have time for the child. She wind up back at her mother's house a few days later but wasn't there but overnight because the next day child protective services was there to pick the child up. I heard from the child once, she called us to let us know what had happened, and after that, I never heard from her again. The child got lost in the system. To this day, I too often wonder what happened to her.
Her mother had a mental problem. She wasn't necessarily a bad person she just was sick in her mind that's the sad and crazy part. But you know, later on, the woman thanked me for taking her child in, which blew my mind. The woman couldn't help herself, she had a mental problem and the strange part about it is that in a sense both she and the child were crying out for help.
I've witnessed and observed many things in my lifetime, the good, bad, and ugly. One thing, I've learned about life though is that it all works itself out in the end. God always has a ram in the bush.
"When Kruzan killed her tormentor at age 16, the judge declared her actions "well thought-out" and gave her life in prison without parole."
Granny, the system failed her. After failing her, this very same system wanted to punish her for its failure.
I don't condone murder, but then I don't condone what was done to this child, who apparently believed that the only way out of her predicament was to kill her abuser.
The Supremes got to get it right on this one.
Black Diaspora:
My sentiments exactly! I don't condone murder either, never have, and never will. This is one case though that I pray that the courts will have mercy on this child. She has suffered enough and will more than likely have a mental scar that will last forever. My heart goes out to her.
Granny,
It happened because she's a black female! If she had been a blond blue eyed Becky, she wouldn't have ever spent a minute in jail.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/17/national/main3517564.shtml
Joe Horn of Houston, Texas gunned down 2 burglary suspects on a neighbor's property. Horn's life was not in danger but yet he walked free.
How do you know any of the claims made by the girl are true?
Was there a witness to the claimed rape, when she was 13? Obviously the person who would have been the defendant in that case is dead.
To lead jurors away from the obvious fact that OJ brutally murdered his ex-wife and her friend Ron Goldman, his lawyers gave the jury a totally fictional story about Colombian drug dealers killing the unlucky pair.
Al Sharpton, claimed Tawana Brawley was raped by six white men, a story that was a complete hoax. At first the media swallowed it whole. Eventually Brawley and Sharpton were seen as the liars they are.
What makes this murderous teenager and her lawyers believable? At this point -- nothing.
justice58, you wrote:
"It happened because she's a black female! If she had been a blond blue eyed Becky, she wouldn't have ever spent a minute in jail."
Give me an example of a white woman who was not prosecuted for killing a person close to her.
Amy Fisher -- famous for wounding Joey Buttafucco's wife -- went to prison for her assault with a deadly weapon.
Susan Smith is in prison for killing her kids.
In short, you have no idea what you are writing about. Par for the course.
no_slappz:
Are you back again to share your bigoted views with us again? Or did you come to pedal some more of your lies?
How cruel of you but then when it comes to people of color we expect that out of you.
So, according to you no_slappz, a rapist who has it in his mind to rape a 13 year old child should be told by the victim "Before you rape me, let me get some witnesses so that assholes like no_slappz will believe me.
BTW, no_slappz, I didn't know you had so much love for pimps. Do you have a preference for what color skin they have to?
granny,
Why do you believe the stories told by people accused of murder?
As we know, OJ and his lawyers cooked up lots of lies to enable him to get away with a double homicide.
Why do you believe this girl is telling the truth?
no_slappz:
How long ago was O.J.s trial and where is he now? That happen way back so many years ago and every time something comes up, people want to use that as a measuring tape for every case in America that involves people of color. In the first, place O.J. and Nicole were adults, that was an entirely different case and had nothing to do with raping a child. Why do you sympathize with pedophiles and pimps?
Why do you continue to take it upon yourself to speak for others as if you have an inside view to their minds?
I didn't grow up sheltered from life or living away from civilization in a gated community. I could ask you that same question reversed, why do you think she has to be lying. She was only 13 years, that right there in itself is statutory rape. And even at 16 years old that is still statutory rape. You can not get around that.
We had some cases similiar to this out this way where grown men were snatching up children 12 and 13, kidnapping them, and forcing them into prostitution. They would transport them far away from home. It was a big mess. Fortunately, for them though the police were able to rescue them. Which was a blessing.
Unfortunately, this was not so in this young ladies case. She was failed all the way around by the system and adults.
Granny:"I could ask you that same question reversed, why do you think she has to be lying. She was only 13 years, that right there in itself is statutory rape. And even at 16 years old that is still statutory rape. You can not get around that."
_____________
yes, even at 16 it is still rape. the judge must be an ( ), fill in the blank, this case really makes me angry!
notice how no_sense brings up all kinds of things that have nothing to do with anything.
Yup, Kathy!
No slappz
Amy Fisher -- famous for wounding Joey Buttafucco's wife -- went to prison for her assault with a deadly weapon.
Susan Smith is in prison for killing her kids.
They never claimed anyone raped them either. We're talking about rape!
I still stand by my statement...
It happened because she's a black female! If she had been a blond blue eyed Becky, she wouldn't have ever spent a minute in jail.
Justice58 said...
"Granny,
"It happened because she's a black female! If she had been a blond blue eyed Becky, she wouldn't have ever spent a minute in jail."
Stand by your statement!
Justice is dispensed more along color lines than certain people, one who will remain namely, will admit.
"Just us" fall under the heavy scales of justice disproportionately.
Had the "balloon boy's" family been black, we all know that they would have been up on charges for child abuse.
The only reason that law enforcement is up in arms now, is that a hoax was perpetrated, and they're embarrassed for believing the story, and giving the family the benefit of the doubt.
No such luck for a black family. Let's see how this one plays out, now that it's under the klieg lights of justice.
Black Diaspora
You better preach!
Had the "balloon boy's" family been black, we all know that they would have been up on charges for child abuse.
Before sundown!
That balloon boy would have been hauled away by child protective services. No doubt about it.
Y'all know when it comes to children granny don't play that. A child should be able to enjoy their childhood, be safe, and are entitled to the best education they can get. Children are too precious for that and God only lent them to you in the first place to be their caretaker, provider, and nourish their minds with positives.
Sister Granny..."the kid is in rare form tonight",(from the movie Purple Rain"). You are "on"- on this one. Having lived so long I see/seen a lot of things recycled. Working with people from the advocate/compassionate side- I see that this young lady is not atypical. That said, to be in a relationship (not intimate relationship) of unequally yoked, standards of actions must be considered. We can't/will not extract race from our society.
granny, you appear to be a sucker for a sob story.
The girl's tale of being raped at 13 and enslaved by the man she murdered is a plausible story.
But though the story is plausible, it may be a big lie.
The girl was on trial for murder. A defendant in a murder trial has every reason to lie, especially if he or she is guilty.
I am not critical a guilty defendant's strategy of lying to avoid punishment, but that does not mean the exculpating claims of the defendant are true.
As for using the OJ example, well, it is an example that everyone in the country knows.
I could give you local examples from New York City, but you would not have any knowledge of the cases and could easily assume my claims are fictitious.
justice58,
I asked you for just ONE example of a white female in a similar circumstance who was NOT prosecuted.
However, rather than attempting to support your claim with some facts, you only repeated your worthless ASSERTION.
Consider these two cases: the kidnapping and sexual abuse of Elizabeth Smart, and the kidnapping and sexual abuse of Jesse Dugard.
Both were young white females when kidnapped. Dugard was about 11, I think. Smart was 15. Dugard gave birth to at least two kids fathered by her abductor. Smart was forced to have sex with her kidnapper.
If either of them had killed their kidnappers, you would have some dandy examples of white girls in action. Instead, in both cases, the kidnappers were caught and will never again experience freedom.
By the way Amy Fisher was too young for consensual sex with Joey Buttafuoco. As a result, he spent some time in jail after pleading guilty to the statutory rape of Fisher.
black diaspora, you wrote:
"Had the "balloon boy's" family been black, we all know that they would have been up on charges for child abuse."
The kid was NOT on board the balloon. Hence, no basis for claims of child abuse. If his parents had put him on the balloon, then they would now face some serious child endangerment charges. But the kid was on the ground at all times.
You wrote:
"The only reason that law enforcement is up in arms now, is that a hoax was perpetrated, and they're embarrassed for believing the story, and giving the family the benefit of the doubt."
I see. So in your world, the police and emergency-response people must determine the truth or fiction of an emergency call before responding.
How would that work for fire departments? Do they wait and look for visible signs of smoke and flames before dispatching the fire trucks? Or are False Alarms a big problem plaguing city fire departments?
As for hoaxes, how about Tawana Brawley and Crystal Mangum?
By the way, the vast majority of false alarms occur in minority neighborhoods. That's one reason most fire-boxes have been removed in those areas. Now people have to call the fire department on their home phones or cell phones, which make it much easier to catch the liars.
After reading the comments from no slappz I'm guessing they live in some gated community of the wise!
BigMacInPittsburg, you wrote:
"After reading the comments from no slappz I'm guessing they live in some gated community of the wise!"
In terms of my physical location, I live in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn, NY., a short walk from Brooklyn College.
My urban experience is extensive.
Consider these two cases: the kidnapping and sexual abuse of Elizabeth Smart, and the kidnapping and sexual abuse of Jesse Dugard.
Both were young white females when kidnapped. Dugard was about 11, I think. Smart was 15. Dugard gave birth to at least two kids fathered by her abductor. Smart was forced to have sex with her kidnapper.
Neither of these white women killed their rapist! Do you honestly think IF Elizabeth Smart would have killed Brian Mitchell she'd be sitting in a jail cell? Get real! Elizabeth would have been given an award for courage!
If blond blue eyed Becky goes missing...she receives wall to wall Media coverage...A black female....Not so much! ...And if a black male goes missing, he receives even less coverage than a black female.
http://weeseeyou.com/2009/10/05/mitrice-richardson-familys-painful-plea-to-public/#disqus_thread
Mitrice Richardon( black female) has been missing since September 17th, where's the wall to wall coverage? Black women's lives matter!
justice58,
The only proof of Jesse Dugard's rape is the existence of her two children and the DNA connection linking them to her abductor.
In the case of Elizabeth Smart, there is most likely NO evidence she was raped aside from her own testimony.
With respect to Sara Kruzan, again, there is probably nothing but her testimony supporting her claim she was raped by her captor.
In Kruzan's case you are merely repeating stories that have appeared in the press and were most likely circulated by her lawyers, who know that defending a guilty murderer requires a story that turns the killer into the victim.
Maybe the stories about her life as a captive are true. Or maybe they are false.
Anyway, Smart and Dugard did NOT kill their captors, which makes their stories of long-term sexual abuse based on intimidation more plausible. Of course Dugard's story is true because she has the kids to prove it.
What proof of abuse has Kruzan offered?
And once again, can you supply even ONE example to support your claim that the white girls get a pass while the black girls go to jail?
The answer is NO. You cannot.
That tactic is at the core of black debating style.
The black debater almost always offers the HYPOTHETHICAL claim that IF a black offender were replaced by a white offender, the white offender would face no consequences.
But blacks making this hypothetical claim never supply examples. The only action is to repeat empty assertions.
However, assertions are meaningless.
No_slappz:
As usual your assessment of me is wrong, nonetheless, I've come to the place where I expect that out of you. I am definitely not a sucker for a sob story. Like I said before I did not grow up sheltered from the world or behind a gated community away from civilization.
However, I do have a lot of compassion for human beings and their sufferings. You should try it some time. You’d be surprise how good it will make you feel on the inside and it draws people to you, instead of driving them away from you. When you can see all human beings, especially, children who sometimes are subject to human error with love and compassion that is one of the greatest gifts in the world and the benefits reaped from it are worth more than silver or gold. However, you seem to have more compassion for pimps and pedophiles.
Sarah Kruzan as a child was being abused, tortured, manhandled, raped, and molested, however, your attitude has more to do with a political cultural because your comments are always cold and void of any type of feeling for human suffering, especially, that of children, which is illustrated in your choice of labeling her a murderer instead a victim of circumstances beyond her control.
She had no adults to stand up and protect her from the evils of society. Instead she was betrayed and victimized by adults but in order not to own up to that the easy way out is to label her the guilty one in the whole scenario. Evidently, you have no children or you hate children, or maybe, this is how you treat children yourself. God only knows because I don’t know why you lack compassion and think that she deserves a life sentence without parole + four years sentence for being victimized as helpless child. Lord knows that I don’t know too many men and women who bring a child into the world with the intentions of serving them up on a platter to pimps and pedophiles.
Last year PBS did a documentary called,“Fighting Child Prostitution” it showed how teenage children were going to jail while the pimps and johns ran free. It is sad that children being sexually exploited are rarely seen as the victims while child predators are rewarded with their freedom to seek out their next child victim. The victim is transformed into the assailant while the assailant is transformed into the victim shows me that we’re living in a very sick society. Although, this is nothing new because many rape victims have been treated as the assailant instead of the victim and subjected to this form of treatment.
What gets me is America has the nerve to proclaim self-righteousness and complain about the treatment of females in foreign countries where women have no rights but are guilty of the same thing when it comes to the treatment of female victims in rape, especially, children.
And again, no_slappz, what does O.J. Simpson's trial have to do with this one. Those were adults, it was an entirely different case, and this is a minor child who was raped and forced into prostitution?
No slappz, assuming that urban experience that you spoke of earlier doesn't inclued experience with the criminal justice system?Even if you have no personal experience I'm sure you have neighbors that could debunk your post at 10:39am1
granny, you wrote:
"Sarah Kruzan as a child was being abused, tortured, manhandled, raped, and molested..."
Says who?
Where's the proof?
The only certainty in this story is the fact she is/was the defendant in a murder trial.
It appears you believe she killed the man who is described as her rapist and pimp.
Is there anything but her testimony that proves she was abused, tortured, manhandled, raped, and molested?
As an accused murderer, she will say anything to win an acquittal.
bigmacinphiladelphia,
What do you mean by "experience with the criminal justice system"?
Anyway, my comment was mainly about the fact that there is a black style to debate about criminal justice.
It virtually always includes a total dependence on a hypothetical statement about a black and white offender switching places and claiming the white offender is sent home unpunished.
Of course people who actually know something about the realities of prosecution know this claim is false.
BTW, so much for your urban experience that you have under the belt. You sure didn't learn much and I would suggest you take another course in it.
no_slappz:
I thought you had urban experience under you belt? At least that is what you claimed. Anyone with the urban experience under their belt as you claimed would know that prostitution is abusing to the body. By her being a child, common sense would tell you that being taken advantage of sexually by an adult male is manhandling, molestation, and rape. It don't even take an urban experience to figure that one out. If you don't find an adult male having sex with a 13 year old child, whose female organs are still developing on the inside with a fully grown developed sex organ abusive or think that it is anything wrong with that, it is something wrong with you and you need help.
"There are approximately 225 juveniles in California serving a life without parole sentence. California has the worst racial disparity rate in the nation for sentencing juveniles to life without parole. Black youth are given this sentence at 22 times the rate of white youth." ~~youthlaw.org~~
Interesting development in today's news --
A white woman was arrested after claiming she was kidnapped and held for ransom.
According to court documents, she fabricated the story and intended to bilk her husband of $50,000.
She and her boyfriend concocted the scheme. But the moron husband is standing by her even though he was the intended victim of the fraud.
no_slappz:
Do you escape from reality much?
granny, you asked:
"Do you escape from reality much?"
Nope. You can always find me here on Planet Earth with my feet on the ground.
Anyway, you have continued to offer pointless and unrelated assertions about the Sara Kruzan case.
Where is the proof she was
abused, tortured, manhandled, raped, and molested?
"Sara was born in Riverside County, where she was raised by an abusive, drug-addicted mother. At the age of 11, Sara was befriended by a 33-year-old man who promised to take care of her. After winning her trust, he proceeded to molest her and coax her into prostitution. ~~Center On Juvenile Crime and Criminal Justice~~
Granny@1:39, Thanks for posting that. Is there a link to follow?
I can't add much to the thoughtful comments regarding the tragedy of Sara's nightmare, but I will echo Sarge, who in the second post wrote:
==================
Besides, making her completely responsible lets a whole lot of other people and institutions off the hook, so she HAS to be maxxed.
"Greater good", you know. "Individual responsibility", "accountability", that sort of thing that makes the public nod in grave sobriety that "the system works".
===========================
Sarge, you said it well. And anyone who followed Granny's link to the original report knows this is a case before the supreme court. My hope is that the court will grant Sara the opportunity to let, as Granny said, "the healing begin." I am especially interested to see what Sonia does.
On the topic of unjustly convicted innocent people being given OFFENDER id's after having later been found _innocent_...
As far as I have been able to determine, the state of WA does not conduct this offensive practice.
Black mass murderer in the news today:
Cleveland police arrested Anthony Sowell on Saturday, two days after the grisly discovery.
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
NEW: Four more bodies unearthed on Tuesday, Cleveland police chief says
Total of bodies found at home of Anthony Sowell is up to 10
Sowell, 50, has been charged with five counts of aggravated murder
Bodies could have been there for "weeks, if not months or years," coroner says
(CNN) -- Investigators discovered four more bodies Tuesday at the Cleveland, Ohio, home of a convicted rapist -- making a total of 10 since last week, Police Chief Michael McGrath said Tuesday.
Authorities on Tuesday charged Anthony Sowell with five counts of aggravated murder after unearthing the bodies of women at his home last week, police said.
Sowell, 50, also was charged with rape, felonious assault and kidnapping, police said. His arraignment is scheduled for Wednesday morning.
Police arrested Sowell on Saturday, two days after discovering the decomposing bodies of five females inside his home and another woman's body outside the house.
Earlier Tuesday, a source close to the investigation had told CNN that a seventh body had been found in the home. The source, who was not authorized to speak on the record, did not reveal the gender of the seventh body found at Sowell's home. The source did not say exactly where the body was found at the residence.
Authorities found the first two bodies last week while trying to serve an arrest and search warrant on Sowell related to a sexual assault investigation, and an intensive search began. Sowell was not home at the time; officers found him after a tipster told them of his whereabouts.
The decomposing bodies of the first six women, all of whom were African-American, could have been lying where they were found for "weeks, if not months or years," Cuyahoga County Coroner Frank Miller III told CNN on Saturday.
All six deaths were ruled homicides, Lt. Thomas Stacho of the Cleveland Police Department said Monday, with five of the deaths due to strangulation.
About a month ago, a woman accused Sowell of rape and felonious assault, Stacho noted last week.
Investigators obtained the warrants that set off the search after the "cooperation of the victim," he said.
granny, you copied and pasted:
""Sara was born in Riverside County, where she was raised by an abusive, drug-addicted mother..."
Says who?
I read all the same NEWSPAPER reports. Not one word is proven.
You and everyone else are reading the story given to the press by the Kruzan's defense attorney.
Were there reports from social workers who visited Kruzan and her mother? Was Kruzan's mother ever arrested for using drugs or abusing Kruzan? Was Kruzan herself arrested for prostitution? Was she arrested on drug charges?
Where is the paper trail from social workers, police, and others in contact with Kruzan and her mother to support the story you continue to repeat?
Like I said, the story about Kruzan told at her murder trial may be 100% fiction. Or maybe it is 50% fiction.
But every time I ask you for some facts, you repeat the unproven assertions found in the newspaper.
Like I said, you are a sucker for a sob story.
no_slappz,
You should never have children if you think a 13 year old has agency.
hathor, you wrote:
"no_slappz,
You should never have children if you think a 13 year old has agency."
I have two sons. They are terrific human beings.
Meanwhile, I watched the Sara Kruzan video. It proves nothing. She offers her tale about G.G. without a shred of evidence.
For all you know, she decided to kill him because she wanted to rob him.
At age 16, a streetwise girl would know she could run away from an abusing pimp, if that's what he was.
Instead, she concocted a murder plan and carried it out. You might feel sympathy for her, but once again, that sympathy has arisen because you believe her story. But you have no idea if her story is true.
However, if she once was a street hooker, then she has no credibility, honesty or integrity, as she admitted in her video.
Black women are fat. Why is this relevant? Because being fat shows a lack of focus and lack of discipline. Eating is for them an animal reflex without deliberate thought.
The same bad traits can be true in a person's thinking.
That is why I prefer white women. They are nice and slim.
Think about it and improve yourselves, instead of reflexively calling names.
I am Della, I am working on fixing that right now.
Della:
Post something for me right quick so I can see if it works. Just say testing!
TESTING!
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