Weekend Open Thread
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28 comments:
Well now: I don't want to make white people lives better by giving them my black money.
If I were as bigoted as Santorum, I'd said something like the above, and the following: Blacks were held down for years so that whites could rise; why should I now pay them, because they didn't rise (receiving more food stamps than blacks or Latinos), although they had the shoulders of every black in this country upon which to stand.
Santorum will use anything to become president: Present a piety that's questionable, and sound a dog whistle that some whites in the electorate are bound to hear, and, which is his hope, respond to favorably in the voting booth.
Has he no shame?
What gets me is that they claim that they're not racist, but constantly jump at the chance to insult, use disparaging, and racist language to put down blacks to gain brownie points with those who are longing for the good old days of Jim Crow and slavery. Then they try to cover it up with those same old tired excuses "Out of context" or "empty apologies" as if that somehow magically erases what they said.
And then they wonder why black people do not vote for them. Why would black people vote for people who openly and in their actions let them know that they do not mean them any good.
Black people vote democrat because the democrats give black people (collectively) money and power. They practice identity politcs as a route to power.
Republicans do not beleive in the racial spoils system, and thereby are unable to compete for black votes.
Until either Blacks place the common good above their collective special interests (and why would they?) or Republicans try to outdo democrats regarding emptying the federal treasury (impossible), Blacks will stay firmly on the Democrat plantation.
There is no reason for Republicans to seek the Black vote. Those blacks who wish to join the country will vote Republican; no amount of pandering can sway the rest.
See, lumping black folks in one boat, that's what is wrong with your way of thinking. You cannot see blacks as individuals because they are invisible to you, which is sad.
Negrodamus said..."Black people vote democrat because the democrats give black people (collectively) money and power."
"Money and power," you say. When you think about it, it's not a bad trade off. If it's good enough for rapacious corporations, and the power elites, it's good enough for me.
"Republicans do not beleive in the racial spoils system, and thereby are unable to compete for black votes."
No, Republicans believe in the 1% spoils system, but the only problem with that, the 1% can only finance their campaigns with unlimited spending thanks to Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, the product of a Roberts, conservative Supreme Court, not get them elected.
"Until either Blacks place the common good above their collective special interests (and why would they?)"
Yeah, why should we? Corporations (you know, those make-believe people) that send our now scarce jobs to China, aren't placing the "common good" above their "collective special interests."
I don't read that you're taking them to task, just us blacks. How selectively convenient for you!
"Republicans try to outdo democrats regarding emptying the federal treasury (impossible), Blacks will stay firmly on the Democrat plantation."
You really should give up those Republican, threadbare talking points, and take note of who it is who's really "emptying the federal treasury."
If it's welfare you're referencing when you talk about "emptying the federal treasury," the small amount of change given to all people (whites, blacks, browns) in terms of public assistance can't compete with the massive trillions that this government give on the daily to corporations, in bail outs, in subsidies, in loopholes (and this is in addition to what corporations receive through tax dodges, and shelters, often resulting in them paying no taxes at all), and our Federal Reserve making billions of dollars available in cheap loans to foreign banking entities.
"There is no reason for Republicans to seek the Black vote."
I can think of one: With the shrinking number of whites in our population, black and Latino voters will soon be the only ones left, and the only ones that really matter.
And Republicans are doing their level best to alienate even those voters with talk of "electrified fences" along the border, and alligator infested moats, and the "welfare queen" insults from an era gone by, leveled at blacks (as though blacks don't pay taxes, and whites don't use food stamps in a nation that's structured to assure their success).
"Those blacks who wish to join the country will vote Republican; no amount of pandering can sway the rest."
Well now, let's reverse this nonsense: "Those whites who wish to join the country [rather than destroy this nation's economy to regain congressional and executive power] will vote [Democratic]; no amount of pandering can sway the rest [the Evangelicals, and those who cling to their Bibles and their guns, and hate on gays, Muslims, and undocumented workers, and use the law to suppress voter turn out, and dismantle unions]"
Most of these men live in echo chambers where there are few if any voices to contradict their understanding of the world. Look at how fast Santorum wiggled out of that dialogue. But I see echoes of Kerry ignoring the debater who got tasered a few years ago. The broader concern is that anyone who wants to engage in forceful intelligent dialogue from the Black Panther Party to OWS is ignored, ridiculed or marginalized. We have to stop letting all leaders get away with this.
How can we influence or compel politicians to pursue our good regardless of what is in their hearts?
And good point on Twitter. The candidates were out of touch with respect to sports. Let's stop amusing ourselves to death and start funding policy institutes who can hip us to things like the Southern Strategy in a timely fashion so that we can respond rather than react.
GrannyStandingforTruth said...
You cannot see blacks as individuals because they are invisible to you, which is sad.
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That is because blacks do not act as individuals. Black culture does not value individualism but instead values solidarity. Dissent is not tolerated. Blacks vote 95%+ for one political party.
Politically, there is no such thing as black individualism. Those that try it are called "Toms" or race traitors.
Santorum is too honest and Godly to ever get elected, but just think how much better he would be than the lying atheist destroyer who inhabits the White House now.
"Black people vote democrat because the democrats give black people (collectively) money and power. "
And the problem with that is what exactly?
It's also the reason black people don't vote republiklan because they want re enslave black people.
Redeye said...
"Black people vote democrat because the democrats give black people (collectively) money and power. "
And the problem with that is what exactly?
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None, it is perfectly rational for blacks to pursue their self-interest in a racial spoils system.
The problem is that it is morally wrong, and it must eventually lead to the destruction of the nation.
Republican ideology is based on the common good, and needs a united people operating under a sense of nationhood to function. The Democrats dismantling of the culture under the guise of multi-culturalism and identity politics makes the ability to do what's best for the whole country harder and harder.
Black people and soon Hispanics will keep voting as a special interest bloc, because as you point out, it works. For now.
Eventually, the country will collapse. Things will no go very well for black people after that.
George W. Bush said I have proof of tons and tons of WMD in Iraq that Saddam is about to use on us.
"None, it is perfectly rational for blacks to pursue their self-interest in a racial spoils system."
And the problem with blacks pursuing their self interest is what exactly?
"Republican ideology is based on the common good, and needs a united people operating under a sense of nationhood to function."
BULLPOO.
Redeye said...
And the problem with blacks pursuing their self interest is what exactly?
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Someone like you won't know until it's over.
That's kind of the whole problem.
One
Negrodamus said..."That is because blacks do not act as individuals. Black culture does not value individualism but instead values solidarity."
The more whites try to present blacks as monolithic, the more they reveal just how ignorant they really are as to who we are.
You presume too much, a presumption that reveals more about you, than it does about us.
You speak of "solidarity" as though it's this great evil, which, by the way, it is in the hands of Republicans who have, since Obama became president, operated with one voice and with one goal, to defeat Obama, and to facilitate his failure--and to use this obstructionism, and solidarity, to take back congress, and the White House, through a series of hindrances, impediments to progress that have hurt this country's efforts to rebound economically, after Bush's failed policy of "trickled-down economics," that saw a hemorrhaging of jobs before Obama applied his solutions, and reversed the trend.
"My point was the Republicans can't compete with the targeted set-asides promised by the democrats. Republicans try to improve the social and economic state of all Americans."
What set asides are you talking about that benefit blacks exclusively, Affirmative Action, public assistance, food stamps?
There are no such set-asides, as whites are also recipients of Affirmative Action, public assistance, and food stamps.
Republicans have "improve[d] the social and economic state of all Americans" by threatening to shut down the government, by not extending unemployment insurance for those out of work, without taxcut concessions for the rich; by threatening to repeal the Affordable Health Care Act that will extend health care to almost 30 million or more Americans, ending an annual and life-time cap on the health care provided, insuring more children, and providing more care to seniors.
"Making things better for everybody works; "redistributing" to favored groups winds up making everyone poorer."
It's okay if Republicans advocate for the "redistribution" of wealth to corporations by way of tax loopholes and subsidies, and the provision of tax cuts for the uber-rich (whose effective tax rate is around 16 percent), but resist a payroll tax holiday for the middle class and others who work for a living.
Yeah, that's the type of "redistributing" that will make "things better for everybody," especially the rich, and widen the income gap that has seen the middle class lose income, while the rich have seen their income grow exponentially.
Way to go, Republicans, redistributing to your "favored groups [gluttonous corporations and the wealthiest among us] wind up making everyone poorer."
Two
"For reasons we all know, Black people see themselves as Black first rather than American. Democrats exploit this practicing identity politics, promising meager payoffs for eternal loyalty."
Why should blacks see themselves as Americans first, when whites, such as yourself, see us as "black first" and Americans, maybe, if at all?
It appears that Republicans have "exploited" what you term "identity politics," with such statements as "our blacks are better than your blacks," and speak of the Democratic party as the "Democrat plantation," and see our black president as someone who has a "deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture (although his mother is white)", as someone who is secretly a Muslim, and has a "mau-mau view" of the world.
"This is the reality of history. Opportunity and fulfillment await beyond the fence, but the security of the plantation and the promise of another bag of corn keep Black people in line."
This last statement is so offensive, that if I knew nothing more about Republicanism than this statement, that alone would convince me that your party is the party of division, is racially insensitive, and woefully condescending.
Don't ask me to respect a political party that doesn't respect me.
It's the height of arrogance. You have done nothing but insult, which must have been your aim from the beginning, not present a compelling case for a shift in my political ideology.
"Someone like you won't know until it's over.
That's kind of the whole problem."
Huh? Someone like me won't know until what is over exactly? What is the whole problem?
Frm previous thread. Follow the logic and reasons, it makes historical sense.
Granny, "Genesis 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."
What's interesting about this is that nowhere in the Bible does it say, "God created man equally." Do you think that is why Whites control the earth because God did not create us equal?
I mean, we DO look different from white folks. We were slaves and later lived under Jim Crow. Now, we are the most unemployed and the poorest and least educated. How do you explain this if it wasn't meant to be? I am sure BD will agree with me.
anon9:24am, thanks for the slam dunk on BD and Granny. There is no comeback for what you wrote.
It's obvious that God made all men in HIS image but ranked them according to color. I mean, look at the world. Who is in charge? It is obvious.
It's obvious Anonymous is anon 9:24, Negrodamus and Felona. E Serona
It's obvious Anonymous is anon 9:24, Negrodamus and Felona. E Serona
January 9, 2012 2:35 PM
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Bullshit. Anybody with half a brain can tell we are not the same.
Black Diaspora said...
"It's okay if Republicans advocate for the "redistribution" of wealth to corporations by way of tax loopholes and subsidies, and the provision of tax cuts for the uber-rich (whose effective tax rate is around 16 percent), but resist a payroll tax holiday for the middle class and others who work for a living."
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So many misconceptions, mistruths, and outright lies in one sentence. You've outdone yourself, BD.
Republicans have no monopoly on tax loopholes and subsidies, and in truth are far less enamored of them as Democrats. It is the Republican party that is pushing for tax reforms (e.g. flat tax, 9-9-9, etc.) that would end "corporate welfare". They are opposed in this effort by the Crony Capatalist-in-Chief, Barack Obama.
The Bush Tax cuts actually made the US Tax code MORE progressive :
“There is a perception that the Bush income tax cuts were a massive gift to the wealthy. Well, that's kind of true. But along with that perception seems to come the notion that they were massively regressive, benefiting the wealthy at the expense of the middle-class and poor. That's just not true.
The Bush tax cuts were ultimately a massive gift (generally I object to the notion that the government letting you keep more of your own money is a "gift," but I am using this sadly popular phraseology here for illustration) to everyone who pays taxes--the wealthy receiving a bit less than the middle-class, actually. A big part of the misunderstanding comes from a hard-to-kill confusion about marginal vs. total tax rates. A bigger part comes from something even simpler, only looking at what happened to the tax rates on the high earners and not even doing a comparison. Warning, there will be math in this op-ed”
Worth the read if you truly want to understand how the current tax code.
Also, this chart shows how the share of taxes of the rich has increased over time.
The Republicans never "resisted a payroll tax holiday for the middle class"; this cut was their idea in the first place. At long last, they merely tried to be the tiniest bit responsible with our money by proposing to cut spending by an amount that would offset the loss of tax revenue. The Democrats predicatably demogogued the issue and their lackeys present it in the press in a dishonest and misleading way. Not offsetting this cut only hastens the day social security runs out of money. But the Democrats are looking out for us, right?
For someone of your obvious intelligence to repeat this easily disprovable partisan hack propaganda is disconcerting. Do you really believe these talking points, or are you deliberately spreading falsehoods?
Condescending is the party that lies to you to keep your vote, especially when the lies are so transparent.
Negrodamus said..."So many misconceptions, mistruths, and outright lies in one sentence. You've outdone yourself, BD.
"Republicans have no monopoly on tax loopholes and subsidies, and in truth are far less enamored of them as Democrats."
Don't try to deflect the argument. We both know that Republicans balked when Democrats in the Senate proposed to end tax subsidies for oil companies, adhering like barnacles to the hull of ships to their pledge to Grover Norquist:
"Republican leaders affirmed their opposition to tax increases, whether through the elimination of oil company subsidies or any other changes in the tax code."
Where is your beloved Republicans' pledge to the American people?
"The Bush Tax cuts actually made the US Tax code MORE progressive"
I don't care if they made them more "progressive," or "regressive," they were bad for the nation, as they weren't paid for, which seems to be a detrimental pattern of Republicans, as they didn't pay for the two wars in which they embroiled this nation.
Here're some charts of my own.
"The Republicans never "resisted a payroll tax holiday for the middle class"; this cut was their idea in the first place. At long last, they merely tried to be the tiniest bit responsible with our money by proposing to cut spending by an amount that would offset the loss of tax revenue."
You call Republicans' tax offsetting plan "responsible"? It's like using gasoline to put out a fire. Here's their plan:
"The Senate Republican plan would instead pay for the costs [of the payroll holiday] by making spending cuts elsewhere in the federal budget and requiring the rich to do without government aid.
"The GOP proposes freezing the salaries of federal employees [a freeze which is already in place, requiring federal workers to sacrifice on behalf of the rich and other well-to-do Americans] and reducing the government work force – tapping proposals that have been supported by Obama and his bipartisan fiscal commission.
"But hewing to public sentiment over taxing the wealthy, the GOP also proposes blocking those earning beyond $1 million a year from receiving government subsidies for their Medicare premiums, requiring them to pay full price.
"The Republican plan would also block millionaires from receiving unemployment insurance and food stamps. [Who are these millionaires receiving unemployment insurance and food stamps? Sounds like fools gold to me to propose such a plan.]"
Republicans have a plan, alright: Resist any plan that would actually stimulate the economy and replace it with one that the Mad Hatter might actually propose.
"Not offsetting this cut only hastens the day social security runs out of money. But the Democrats are looking out for us, right?"
This is why Democrats have proposed a small surcharge on the uber-rich to pay for this holiday, which, by the way, Republicans (Surprise! Surprise!) opposed. They have to keep their pledge to Grover Norquist, or risk his elephantine ire.
Keep your compliments!
Bullshit. Anybody with half a brain can tell we are not the same.
No, anyone with half a brain can tell you are the same.
The End.
Evidently, the trolls ignored my warning, but I'm not playing. All that namecalling and playing games on here is not going to be tolerated. If you can't discuss the topics in a mature and intelligent manner, you will be deleted!!!!!!!
Granny, I didn't call anybody names and you deleted my comment. What gives?
She's just getting mean in her old age. And Redeye keeps complaining about having to think.
Think about this;
Notice to Trolls: I will not tolerate your BS! I could care less how you take it.
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